01  You played a defining role in leading Mobilink Bank through its evolution into one of Pakistan’s largest microfinance institutions. What was the single most critical structural decision in those early years that laid the groundwork for this growth?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: We were very clear about whom we wanted to serve. When we started, the State Bank’s figures presented to us indicated that only 12 per cent of Pakistan’s population had access to the formal banking system. Our purpose was to reach people who had never experienced banking.

That clarity led to a simple proposition: “Mera phone, mera bank”—my phone, my bank. Instead of requiring customers to visit a branch, arrange references and complete lengthy paperwork, we brought basic banking to their phones. A mobile wallet enabled them to deposit and withdraw money, make transfers, pay utility bills and access borrowing.

This was also a structural choice. Expanding access through physical branches would have required enormous investment. Mobile technology offered a more practical route, including services on basic feature phones before smartphones became widespread.

We started in 2012, and by 2016 we had taken the leading position on the branchless banking measures we tracked, including wallets, transactions and money handled. The foundation was our decision to build around the unbanked customer rather than replicate conventional branch banking.

02  The intersection of telecommunications and banking creates distinct operational dynamics. How did you align telecom-level execution speed with a conservative banking risk model?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: The initial challenge was that our telecom shareholder was primarily interested in transaction revenue. Over-the-counter transfers and bill payments were attractive because they generated fees without the credit risk associated with lending. The regulator, however, expected us to function as a bank: mobilise deposits, provide financial services and pass the benefits of technology on to customers.

I explained that a transaction-only model would not remain sufficient as other banks and non-bank providers entered the wallet business. Once deposits grew, we needed to deploy that liquidity profitably through lending and investments.

The way forward was measured, secured financing. We could pursue growth without lending indiscriminately, using products such as vehicle finance and lending backed by gold. This addressed the shareholder’s concerns about losses while creating another source of revenue.

I aligned the banking strategy with the shareholder’s growth expectations and then delivered against our commitments. From 2016 to 2024, we exceeded the numbers I had promised the board each year. That consistency built confidence and helped establish leadership in both branchless banking and core microfinance.

03  Micro, small and medium enterprises form the backbone of the economy but remain persistently underbanked. How can financial institutions design substantive risk-assessment models for borrowers who lack traditional credit histories?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: The first obstacle is the incentive to lend. When banks can earn attractive returns by placing deposits in government securities, they have less motivation to develop SME finance. Banks need to direct a meaningful share of their resources towards productive businesses that generate jobs, exports and economic growth.

For risk assessment, we should look at the information already available within a business’s operating environment. I discussed this with Daraz: its platform connects thousands of sellers and can provide visibility into their sales, turnover, performance and business activity. That information can help a bank evaluate a seller and establish an appropriate credit limit.

Consider a seller who ships goods but must replenish inventory before payment arrives. Financing should bridge that working-capital gap. Once a limit has been assessed, the seller should be able to access funds promptly rather than wait a month for a fresh credit process.

The challenge is also execution. Banking procurement, vendor selection and software customisation can delay a useful solution for a year. We need lending models connected to real business activity, supported by technology that delivers finance when the business actually needs it.

04  Financial accessibility is often hindered by a lack of digital financial literacy, particularly in rural markets. What strategies actually bridge this gap beyond simple smartphone deployment?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: Providing a smartphone does not, by itself, create financial inclusion. People must understand how to use banking applications, make payments, borrow responsibly and keep savings in an account. At Mobilink Bank, we partnered with the State Bank on financial-literacy programmes, including work with women in rural areas. Other institutions and NGOs also supported these efforts.

The scale of the challenge remains considerable. Where basic literacy is limited, a short training programme cannot overcome every barrier. School education and sustained practical learning are essential to making digital access useful.

Customer protection is equally important. People who depend entirely on an agent may face excessive charges or misuse of their identity and biometric information. If an account or loan exists in someone’s name without their understanding, we cannot treat that as meaningful inclusion.

Mobile banking has expanded access substantially, but account numbers alone do not tell the whole story. We must distinguish registration from active, informed use. The next stage of progress requires education, confidence and the ability to use financial services safely and independently.

05  During your tenure, support staff advanced into roles such as branch relationship manager. How do you structure internal mobility and meritocracy to identify latent talent?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: There must be a system. Moving people between roles purely on a leader’s whim can damage an organisation. Recruitment, training and promotion should follow a methodology, with exceptional appointments made where a person’s capabilities clearly match the work.

A useful example is Adnan, who had been my driver. We had introduced commercial-vehicle financing, but our relationship officers were struggling to reach drivers. I recognised a disconnect between the sales team and the target customer. Adnan understood that community, spoke its language and had direct access to potential borrowers.

We moved him into a sales role, and the results followed. He became a top performer and later a relationship manager. His success showed why formal credentials should not be the only measure of someone’s suitability for a particular role.

I also gave trained management trainees opportunities to run branches rather than assume that long service automatically meant stronger leadership. Performance had to determine progression. For sales teams, incentives should reflect the revenue they generate: someone who substantially exceeds a target should be rewarded accordingly. Meritocracy requires identifying ability, developing it and honouring the rewards promised for results.

06  Your Women Inspirational Network has demonstrated the business case for targeted inclusion. How do you persuade board members to view diversity, equity and inclusion as a driver of return on equity rather than mere CSR compliance?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: In a business organisation, the strongest argument is performance. There may be broad support for women’s empowerment, but the board ultimately expects returns. I began with my own management team and made capability the basis of appointment.

Women led functions including legal, compliance, risk, HR and service quality. Approximately half of our banking management team were women, appointed on merit. That made the business case visible through the work they delivered.

We also addressed practical barriers. Transport can be a serious challenge for women in our society, so we arranged pick-and-drop services at branches. We ensured they could leave on time and maintained zero tolerance for harassment. These measures helped create conditions in which they could perform.

The performance expectations remained the same. Inclusion did not mean preferential treatment for poor results; it meant removing obstacles unrelated to ability. Many women then performed strongly, and our work received recognition. My approach was to demonstrate that fair access to opportunities and a supportive working environment can strengthen the institution’s business performance.

07  As a Herbert H. Humphrey Fellow with international exposure, what global financial framework proved most adaptable—or most incompatible—with emerging-market realities?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: I spent August 2000 to August 2001 in the United States, with academic study at Penn State University and a practical internship component. One lesson was how much effort we spend on work that adds little value, when that energy could be directed towards more productive activities.

The most transferable lesson was investment in people. Developing capability is a shared responsibility: the employer must provide opportunities, and employees must take responsibility for learning and becoming effective members of the team.

I treated training as an investment rather than an expense. We worked with LUMS to design programmes for our managers, covering management effectiveness, leadership and broader thinking. We also used other institutions, including NUST, and sent selected managers for international training. Our head of finance attended Harvard Business School for focused development.

Technology matters, but an organisation cannot reach its potential with undertrained and unprepared people. The practice I found least helpful at home was treating training as a minor administrative cost. The lesson I brought back was that stronger human resources create lasting value, and development should be reflected in leadership decisions and budgets.

08  After leading an institution for over a decade, stepping down requires intentional succession planning. How do you build an organisational culture strong enough to sustain momentum independently of its founding leadership?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM:  An institution becomes vulnerable when its leader keeps every decision and relationship in their own hands. Once that person leaves, a vacuum appears, and it can take a long time to recover.

My effort was to make business strategy, products, people decisions and performance expectations transparent. The team understood how the business worked; there was no hidden formula known only to me. We developed leaders internally and gave them responsibility as they progressed.

Performance reviews were also open. We compared results against agreed KPIs, with targets aligned to the realities of each market. People could understand why someone was promoted, moved or replaced. When incentives were promised and targets were achieved, we delivered those incentives. That consistency helped build trust.

The strongest evidence of continuity is that the business leadership and teams I developed continued to run the bank after my departure in June 2024. The board retained responsibility for appointing my successor, but the operating business had an established team and a clear way of working. Sustainable succession depends on building that organisational capability before the transition occurs.

09  As sustainable and green financing gains momentum globally, how can microfinance institutions structure green portfolios that remain economically viable for low-income borrowers?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: Solar financing offers a particularly strong opportunity because many microfinance customers are farmers in rural areas. Access to reliable electricity can be difficult, and power interruptions affect agricultural activity. Solar can address a practical business need while reducing dependence on the national grid.

We started solar financing because it offered benefits to both the borrower and the bank. For the customer, the asset supports productive activity and provides an alternative source of energy. For the institution, it creates a financing opportunity linked to a clear and useful purpose.

We also adopted solar within our own operations, using available rooftops to supplement our electricity supply. As electric bikes and vehicles became available, we moved into those areas as well. They offer opportunities to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.

The business case is strongest where the environmental benefit also improves the customer’s everyday economics. Green finance should solve a real problem for a low-income borrower. Solar, particularly in agriculture, is an example of how sustainability and practical financial value can work together.

10  Looking back across four decades in commercial, consumer and micro banking, what is one deeply held industry consensus about financial inclusion that you used to believe but now completely reject?

GHAZANFAR AZZAM: My firm conviction is that banks must perform their real role: financial intermediation. They should make finance accessible to businesses with the potential to grow, create employment, generate exports and help revive the economy.

I do not regard large banking profits, on their own, as evidence that the financial system is serving the country effectively. If banks collect deposits from the public and primarily lend that money to the government while productive businesses struggle for finance, we need to question the model.

Personally, I have been fortunate throughout my career. Learning remained important even at the point of retirement: after handing over charge, I attended a course on artificial intelligence at Stanford and a seminar at MIT. I remain interested in what technology can make possible.

My disappointment is with the gap between Pakistan’s potential and what we realise. We need greater attention to productive industry, exports, stronger governance and enabling people. Financial inclusion must ultimately help people and businesses participate in economic growth. The day banking consistently serves that purpose will be a significant day for Pakistan.